Posts by Sea Breeze

So? What's that got to do with anything? That has to be one of the most illogical things you have ever said. Your sympathies for the Watchtower are duly noted.

Jehovah's Witnesses are foretold in scripture. They perfectly fulfill the prophetic scripture below.

2 Peter 2: 1 there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

Jesus said, "“Drink of it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins". - Mt. 26: 27-28

Watchtower mocks Jesus' offer for forgiveness of sins by yearly leading over 10 million people to publically REJECT their "forgiveness of sins" generously offered to "all of you", by Jesus.

If that isn't a dark parody of THE MOST IMPORTANT EVENT IN HUMAN HISTORY - then I don't know what is.

21

Is the JW version of The Lord's Supper really a Parody?

by Sea Breeze in

a black mass is a ceremony celebrated by various satanic groups.

it ... is intentionally a sacrilegious and blasphemous parody of a catholic mass.

- wikipedia.

Sea Breeze

A Black Mass is a ceremony celebrated by various Satanic groups. It ... is intentionally a sacrilegious and blasphemous parody of a Catholic Mass. - Wikipedia

Do JW's perform a similar Parody of a Jesus' Offer of "forgiveness of sins" in Mt. 26: 27-28 ?

18

NEW LIGHT ON THE 144,000 EXPLAINED

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/heulwyd00ku?si=9az0zrsquy67v74g.

the watchtower’s approach to "new light" is, frankly, a masterclass in manipulation.

when they introduce a new interpretation or change their teachings, it's presented as a revelation, showcasing just how guided and spiritually in-tune the governing body is.

Sea Breeze

The 800 lb. gorilla in the room when discussing this topic is the fact that the new covenant is "for the forgiveness of sins", not primarily for a heavenly kindgom position of authority to rule the world.

Mt. 26: 27&28

And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

I think a lot of JW's have figured this out and naturally would like to get their sins forgiven. They likely believe they must keep quiet about their reason why though, so they won't get disfellowshipped. Cowards.

Unfortunatelly, their application for forgiveness of sins is rejected by Jesus because they continue to preach a different gospel for everyone else, a message that the apostles NEVER preached. Scripture says they are still cursed because of it.

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. - Gal. 1 6-9

7

FOR ACTIVE JW's: January 2025 Study Watchtower: Where is JESUS?

by BoogerMan in

didn't jehovah assign christ all power & authority?

so why no mention of him?.

from the january 2025 study watchtower: .

Sea Breeze

According to JW's, Jesus is just a lowly angel that somehow created the whole universe.

Oh, and appparently he can raise himself from the dead, while he is dead according to scripture.

16

GB as God's mouthpiece = ???

by tec in

punk's thread got me thinking about some of the things the gb calls themselves: .

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/245335/1/the-gb-are-gods-mouthpiece-rebuttal-to-elders .

"god's mouthpiece" .

Sea Breeze

60

Did you loathe going in field service, if so why?

by HappyGuy in

jw
friends

i always felt like i was not a "spiritual" person because i loathed going in field service.

i'm not even sure why i loathed it.

i am very outgoing and can talk to anyone, anytime, about anything.

Sea Breeze

I don't miss the lower working class homes JW's seemed to target. I can still smell the stench from many of the houses when the door opened. The ever present smell of dog sh*t that many of the yards reeked of, is also not missed.

59

Proof of two destinies for believers in the Bible, heavenly and earthly

by slimboyfat in

the jw idea that believers are destined either for heavenly life or for endless life on earth comes in for significant criticism by critics of various kinds.

even some groups, such as the christadelphians, who share belief in a future paradise earth, don’t share the view that some christians are destined for life in heaven.

yet there is surprisingly quite a lot of evidence in the bible for the existence of two distinct groups of believers.

Sea Breeze

Thomas Ice reflects my own opinion on the literal Kingdom. It just seems impossible for Amillennialism to exist in light of the vast support of a Premillennial view.

Premillennialism tidys up so much of scripture, promises, and loose ends like the dramatic reemergence of the nation of Israel in 1948. For instance:

The Abrahamic Covenant included the promise of land (Genesis 12:1). It was a specific land, an actual property, with dimensions specified in Genesis 15:18–21. In Genesis 13:15, God gives Abraham all the land that he can see, and the gift is declared to be “forever.” God was not going to renege on His promise. The territory given as part of the Abrahamic Covenant is expanded in Deuteronomy 30:1–10, often called the Palestinian Covenant.

Centuries after Abraham died, the children of Israel took possession of the land under Joshua’s leadership (Joshua 21:43). At no point in history, though, has Israel controlled all of the land God had specified. There remains, therefore, a final fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant that will see Israel occupying their God-given homeland to the fullest extent. The fulfillment will be more than a matter of geography; it will also be a time of holiness and restoration (see Ezekiel 20:40–44 and 36:1—37:28).

It's important to realize that both PREMILLENNIALISTS and AMILLENNIALISTS both agree on the current dispensation and the last dispensation - the eternal state (aka the new heavens and new earth).

PREMILLENNIALISTS strongly argue that there is one more dispensation to pass before we get to the eternal state.

This has been a nice discussion on this topic, and for that I thank you. XJW's should be aware of differences among Christians as they exit the WT and seek other fellowship. Christians are not divided on issues of Salvation however.

Footnote: I have a very good explanation on why the twelve tribes list is slightly different in Revelation. I think I will do a separate post on that since JW's make such a big deal about it.

You may have to last word on the topic if you like.

16

GB as God's mouthpiece = ???

by tec in

punk's thread got me thinking about some of the things the gb calls themselves: .

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/245335/1/the-gb-are-gods-mouthpiece-rebuttal-to-elders .

"god's mouthpiece" .

Sea Breeze

Do they still use the word 'channel'?

The Watchtower—Study Edition | November 2016

9 Some may feel that they can interpret the Bible on their own. However, Jesus has appointed the ‘faithful slave’ to be the only channel for dispensing spiritual food. Since 1919, the glorified Jesus Christ has been using that slave to help his followers understand God’s own Book and heed its directives. By obeying the instructions found in the Bible, we promote cleanness, peace, and unity in the congregation. Each one of us does well to ask himself, ‘Am I loyal to the channel that Jesus is using today?’

I think the WT loves the word "channel" very much. The WT still teaches that the dead spirits of Russell and former GB members are directing the Watchtower to this very day.

That's why they describe themeselves as a "spirit-directed" organization.

In other words, the WT is just plain old fashioned witchcraft. Totally Satanic.

59

Proof of two destinies for believers in the Bible, heavenly and earthly

by slimboyfat in

the jw idea that believers are destined either for heavenly life or for endless life on earth comes in for significant criticism by critics of various kinds.

even some groups, such as the christadelphians, who share belief in a future paradise earth, don’t share the view that some christians are destined for life in heaven.

yet there is surprisingly quite a lot of evidence in the bible for the existence of two distinct groups of believers.

Sea Breeze

Seven 7 Dispensations

@aqwsed

Well presented. People wonder why there are different types of churches. This is one of the reasons why. It has nothing to do with Salvation. Christians have latitude to disagree on a number of things. And, we do. How we get saved isn't one of them.

Just a few closing remarks, becuase both posts describe Premillennialism and Amillennialism well.

1. Premillennialism believes the next dispensation is literal just like the current (and previous) dispensations are literal. (See chart above)

2. Amillennialism jumps from the current dispensation of Grace to the eternal state, skipping a literal 1000 yr. reign.

3. Premillennialism is the dominant view of Evangelicals - 2/3

4. Premillennialism was the view of the early church leaders some of which were trained directly by the apostles.

Below is an excerpt from a White Paper from Liberty University on the topic.

A BRIEF HISTORY OF EARLY PREMILLENNIALISM

by Thomas Ice

I believe that premillennialism is so clearly taught in Revelation 19 and 20 that I still cannot understand how anyone can think otherwise without realizing deep down that they are going against the biblical text. A kingdom reign of the Messiah was just as clearly taught in the Old Testament. Jesus and His Scripture writing disciples also support the notion of an earthly kingdom headed by the Messiah. Such clearness in the Bible provides the likely reason why the early church fathers who spoke on this matter were all premillennialists.

THE FIRST PREMILLENNIALISTS

The first premillennialists were those who received God’s revelation and wrote it down in the Bible. Eusebius tells us that one of the earliest church fathers that had heard the Apostle John and others who had known the Lord and His Apostles was Papias (A.D. 60–130) the bishop of Hierapolis in Phrygia, Asia Minor.

Papias taught “that there will be a millennium after the resurrection of the dead, when the kingdom of Christ will be set up in material form on this earth.”1 Irenaeus (A.D. 130–202) tells us that Papias “related that they had heard from him how the Lord used to teach in regard to these times” (the millennium) in book 4 of Papias’ writings, which are no longer extant, except a few fragments. Papias is recorded as saying: “there will be a millennium after the resurrection from the dead, when the personal reign of Christ will be established on this earth.”2 Polycarp (A.D. 70–155), bishop of Smyrna, is also said to have been a premillennialist.

The Epistle of Barnabas (written between A.D. 120–150) presents the common belief that “in six thousand years, all things will be finished. . . . then shall He truly rest on the seventh day.” The writer speaks of the second coming of Christ with the clear implication that He will set up the thousand year kingdom on earth, followed by the eight day or the eternal state.

Justin Martyr (A.D. 100–165) in his Dialogue With Trypho (@ A.D. 140), a Jewish man, made the following premillennial statement: But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, as the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare.

Justin considered premillennialism an aspect of orthodoxy in his day. And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem; and that thereafter the general, and, in short, the eternal resurrection and judgment of all men would likewise take place.

IRENAEUS AND TERTULLIAN Two of the greatest ante-Nicene fathers were Irenaeus and Tertullian (A.D. 160–230). Irenaeus grew up in Asia Minor and was discipled by Polycarp, who knew the Apostle John. Irenaeus had a very extensive view of Bible prophecy in his last five chapters of Premillennial History — Page Against Heresies, which were suppressed throughout the Middle Ages by antipremillennialists and rediscovered in 1571.

The restoration of a more literal interpretation and reading of the early church fathers by many post-Reformationists led to a revival of premillennialism in the early 1600s. Irenaeus’ writings played a key role because of their clear premillennial statements. “John, therefore, did distinctly foresee the first ‘resurrection of the just,’ and the inheritance in the kingdom of the earth,” he says, “and what the prophets have prophesied concerning it harmonize [with his vision].”

Again, Irenaeus declares: "But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom".

Tertullian, who gave us the Latin word “Trinity,” was also a strong premillennialist. He makes his premillennialism clear when he says the following: But we do confess that a kingdom is promised to us upon the earth, although before heaven, only in another state of existence; inasmuch as it will be after the resurrection for a thousand years in the divinely-built city of Jerusalem, “let down from heaven,” which the apostle also calls “our mother from above;” and, while declaring that our citizenship is in heaven, he predicts of it that it is really a city in heaven. This both Ezekiel had knowledge of and the Apostle John beheld.